Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Democracy Night

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  • Sacha, in reply to Bart Janssen,

    you vote Labour because this is the principle they will use to guide their policy making

    Their well-crafted campaign opening video did that splendidly. Not really echoed enough before or since. Get the same team to help shape *all* Labour's comms for the next 3 years. Starting really soon, not a month before the election.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16279 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to tussock,

    "No asset sales" isn't a policy, eh. People vote for something.

    'Own Our Future' was the positive expression. Though perhaps late focus grouping said emphasising the savings aspects didn't resonate as well as not selling dams?

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16279 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Bart Janssen,

    I don't think that demands Labour rethink policy, but what it does suggest is that Labour somehow must define more precisely why you would vote Labour and not Green without attacking the Green party.

    Yup. If they sought to differentiate more clearly, in marketing speak. I thought they were onto something with their idea of subsidized apprenticeships - that might have reached out really strongly to the massively un(der)employed youth vote. That's reaching straight out to their top two concerns (how to get an education, and how to get some goddamned money), with a very strong cost/benefit built in. It also reaches straight at small businesses that can't afford to hire, but would very much like to have extra hands. It's a hundred times better idea than youth rates, which every kid I've met just shakes their heads at, wondering why they should have to do adult work, but get paid kids wages.

    ETA: Also, who else is going to rebuild Christchurch, if not tradespeople?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8305 posts Report Reply

  • slarty, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    l perpetual motion funding device

    I'm afraid I shall have to start using this in my professional spiel!

    I will of course give full credit :)

    Since Nov 2006 • 290 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Nikki Kaye is pushing a separate *tram* line around her electorate's suburbs. That's as well as buses and the rail link, and instead of expanding the current Wynyard tram past the ferry temrinal/Britomart and along Tamaki Drive. It's a red herring.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16279 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to hamishm,

    I feel that stressing the negatives for the government is propaganda (information, esp. of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view.) at this stage.

    Go and find me anyone with a grain of credibility who believes 48% is a floor rather than a ceiling for National. Even Darth Joyce is on the record admitting that Saturday's result was the upper limit of where National's realistic estimates were at.

    Then bring back a reputable economist or business figure who believes that the books will be back in black on the insanely optimistic timetables being bruited around by Key and Goff during the campaign, and it’s plain economic sailing at home and abroad?

    It’s also a plain bloody statement of fact that whatever the Prime Minister said on Morning Report today, National does not enjoy a “huge majority” and the Maori Party’s support should not be presumed.

    Finally, isn’t it simply bizarre that I’m here defending the evil Matthew Hooten when he made a string of factual statements that should have the left jizzing in their pants.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 11784 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to BenWilson,

    subsidized apprenticeships

    They might even get some traction on this under National. Especially if it helps calm the wailings when interest-free tertiary loans and Working For Families are canned to make sure the books balance on schedule for the benefit of the world banksters when the govt's wildly optimistic income forecasts turn out to be pie.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16279 posts Report Reply

  • Heather Gaye, in reply to tussock,

    Oh, and what Labour needs, like Mana and Māori, is a positive soundbite that accurately describes the aims and goals their policy will work toward in a way that differentiates them from (primarily) the National party.

    +1. One thing that was confirmed for me on the few occasions I’ve had to converse with National supporters is that National have been campaigning the last, this, and probably every future election since midway through Labour’s second term. The sole National supporter I spoke to at a party on Saturday night kept on chanting “personal responsibility” like a mantra. He freely admitted no facts or figures or unpacking would change his mind because to him National was simply all about taking personal responsibility and having the right attitude. He couldn’t respond when asked how severe this left-wing laziness actually was across NZ, he hadn’t heard about (and once explained, really liked) Labour’s apprenticeship policy, and was surprised at (and generally skeptical of) MSD’s actual numbers on the DPB’s yearly turnover. Didn’t make one shred of difference – National = personal responsibility, and Labour = paying people to sit on their arses. It was so firmly ingrained that he wasn’t even capable of unpacking *any* of the assumptions in his “personal responsibility” belief – many patently false. He said he’d been a labour supporter when he was younger, and that he’s gotten more realistic with age.

    I think there are a *lot* of people in NZ that kind of osmose their beliefs based on what they hear in the media, and ever since the baying for tax cuts began, that’s been National (and I also think that the american right wing has had an effect here as well) cracking on about personal responsibility.

    So I’d like the left to balance that out by drilling into the media the kind of phrases that promote the egalitarian ethics we’ve traditionally associated with nz society – “the social contract”, “protecting the vulnerable”, “second chance” , that kind of thing. The way to sway the national dialogue – specifically the “gut feelings” of people that aren’t interested in politics – is sheer repetition.

    Under the western motorwa… • Since Nov 2006 • 523 posts Report Reply

  • linger,

    The next time Key talks about having a "mandate",
    could someone please remind him
    that his only mandate on record
    = John Banks, a cuppa, and a microphone?

    Tokyo • Since Apr 2007 • 854 posts Report Reply

  • HenryB, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    Labour needs to do something more basic – honesty and frankly listen to themselves and genuinely hear what they sound like to people for whom it isn’t an article of faith that not-Labour are either stupid or evil.

    I absolutely agree that they need to do this... but they also need to ask themselves why those who voted Labour in the past are staying away from the polling booths in droves. Yes, a bit of good old fashioned putting oneself in the shoes of others would not go amiss

    Instead, as Gordon Campbell points out they alread seem to be engaging in gazing inwards to figure out how to go forward. And that, too, by figuring out who to blame.

    Palmerston North • Since Sep 2008 • 106 posts Report Reply

  • martinb, in reply to HenryB,

    I shudder at the thought that Darien Fenton can make it to 18 on the Labour list

    Lot of Darien Fenton dislike here!

    Apart from one comment pulled off her facebook and beaten up into an election issue why? Her comments on TV and Red Alert are always thoughtful and I understand her to be hard working, and from people who know her better than me, a nice woman.

    Not having a high list place in a tight electorate takes away the "vote one and get two" line that can be used. Perhaps Sepuloni and Lees-Galloway backed themselves?

    Agreed though, fingers crossed on Carmel.

    Auckland • Since Jul 2010 • 156 posts Report Reply

  • martinb,

    From Russell’s reply: sorry to be lazy and not so googling .

    So do the unions have special rights within the internal party structure, voting for lists and so on, or is it that their members tend to be the ones who put their money where their mouth is and join the party?

    Auckland • Since Jul 2010 • 156 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Heather Gaye,

    I’d like the left to balance that out by drilling into the media the kind of phrases that dictate the egalitarian ethics we’ve traditionally associated with nz society – “the social contract”, “protecting the vulnerable”, “second chance” , that kind of thing. The way to sway the national dialogue – specifically the “gut feelings” of people that aren’t interested in politics – is sheer repetition.

    Yep.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16279 posts Report Reply

  • DeepRed, in reply to Heather Gaye,

    So I’d like the left to balance that out by drilling into the media the kind of phrases that promote the egalitarian ethics we’ve traditionally associated with nz society – “the social contract”, “protecting the vulnerable”, “second chance” , that kind of thing. The way to sway the national dialogue – specifically the “gut feelings” of people that aren’t interested in politics – is sheer repetition.

    A viewing of Inside Child Poverty might just give such people something to think about. And also reports of Alberto Fujimori’s eugenics policy. Whatever happens, I just hope it doesn’t take a Tottenham or Clichy-sous-Bois to do so.

    Because the media relies on ad revenue from the McMansion & Hummer delusion machine, it’d likely be commercial harakiri to bite the hand that feeds. So it has little choice but to stoke the machine instead.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 4060 posts Report Reply

  • hamishm, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    They won. That's why they are in politics, to win. To start declaring them the underdogs after such a bloody good win is to stretch the limits of punditry to infinity and beyond. Lord knows what the next 3 years will bring, I'm picking magic ponies for everyone, myself.
    So why do it? To get the left over confident and not too worried about the loss, "Yeah it was bad but if we just keep on keeping on".
    If I could see it then it's probably visible from space, honestly.
    And change is what Labour need to do. Williams put it very well that it's time for his generation to move on. Time for him and Trotter and the like to mosey off in to the sunset.

    Since Nov 2006 • 345 posts Report Reply

  • martinb, in reply to Keir Leslie,

    Agree. I think despite the media saying there was a rout, that the left should be buoyed by actually being granted some air time and space to articulate their thoughts. And show their good qualities and those their opponents lack.

    Despite this being the highest party vote under MMP, the left/right blocks (shall we measure them by pro/anti asset sale stance this time around) are not far apart at all.

    I remember though the Nats smirking at Goff in parliament over some failure to understand accounting terms over costs or profit or some such thing, and thinking he better be on top of this come election day. Whoever had the job of briefing him and planning that strategy failed big time. When you are up against a guy who made his name in the finance industry you need to be crystal clear and show your competency with the numbers, to minimise that advantage.

    It may perhaps have made a difference, or merely have been balanced out by National's arrogance with the tea tapes and the cops.

    That being said I thought Goff was fantastic in that last TV3 debate and would rather have him as PM than Key 8 days in the week. Perhaps the thought that he could hand it all back soon if it didn't work made him more relaxed!

    Auckland • Since Jul 2010 • 156 posts Report Reply

  • Heather Gaye, in reply to DeepRed,

    Because the media relies on ad revenue from the McMansion & Hummer delusion machine, it’d likely be commercial harakiri to bite the hand that feeds. So it has little choice but to stoke the machine instead.

    I'm really hoping that the Greens manage to position themselves - both in parliament and the collective consciousness - where they're regularly sought after for comment. It was a no-brainer to approach them after Deepwater-Horizon-pot, but I reckon there should be ways they can encourage that - play the media a little - especially on the back of a strong campaign and successful party vote. Then they just need to pick the mantra.

    Wholeheartedly agree about Inside Child Poverty - I would've been interested to see the outcome if it had aired a couple of weeks *before* the teapot saga.

    Under the western motorwa… • Since Nov 2006 • 523 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Williams, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    Finally, isn’t it simply bizarre that I’m here defending the evil Matthew Hooten when he made a string of factual statements that should have the left jizzing in their pants.

    I listened to that segment this morning also... Hooton almost sounded reasonable (except for his gratuitous snark against Robertson)

    Sydney • Since Nov 2006 • 2191 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe, in reply to Bart Janssen,

    But the Labour Party seems much less defined. I don't think it is just a communication issue

    Tell people what Labour stands for; what are the core values and beliefs, what are its policies, how will NZ become a better country to live in if Labour is the government.

    @Keir Leslie: I understand what you are saying and that you genuinely think those actions will sort out Labour. But those very issues of process are what digs the party into the mire. Too much procedure, not enough policy that is clearly and concisely spelt out. Then voters can look at it and say "I like it" - or not. If enough people buy into the party's beliefs and stated policy, you have won an election. I entirely agree the Greens' ways are not Labour's -- I'm not sure they could easily translate to a government either.

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2553 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to Rob Stowell,

    It seems like a wasted vote

    There is no such thing as awaited vote.

    I’m trying to view the votes of those that didn’t vote, as abstentions, with reasons. (It would be good to have an abstention box on the voting form).

    Since Nov 2006 • 2482 posts Report Reply

  • JLM, in reply to Heather Gaye,

    So I’d like the left to balance that out by drilling into the media the kind of phrases that promote the egalitarian ethics we’ve traditionally associated with nz society – “the social contract”, “protecting the vulnerable”, “second chance” , that kind of thing. The way to sway the national dialogue – specifically the “gut feelings” of people that aren’t interested in politics – is sheer repetition.

    Winston cornered the one that should speak best to all of us - "fair".

    That's where the Greens have been heading and Labour should - encapsulating all that research in the Spirit Level in a few choice phrases hammered home for three years

    Judy Martin's southern sl… • Since Apr 2007 • 222 posts Report Reply

  • JLM,

    And I think Key has bought himself a "sleeper" problem by being seen to have aligned himself with SM - an electoral system patently less fair than the one we have

    Judy Martin's southern sl… • Since Apr 2007 • 222 posts Report Reply

  • Yamis,

    Did National win the 2008 election because they just seemed like such a great party with a great message or because people were sick of Labour?

    National will win the 2014 election but by a smaller margin, then in 2017 people will be well and truly sick of National and enough of their previous 'swing' voters will decide to give Labour a crack.

    It's much more simple than we think. Sure, a lot of hard work will go in by all parties behind the scenes and up on stage but at the end of the day some people who don't pay much attention just have a ticking political clock in the back of their brains that does their voting for them.

    Since Nov 2006 • 862 posts Report Reply

  • Islander, in reply to steven crawford,

    I think that is an *excellent* idea.
    You vote by not wanting to commit your vote to anything on offer - but by acknowledging voting is important.

    Yamis, you cannot foretell the future and making a comment like "National will win the 2014 election but by a smaller margin" is just plain prophecy and as totally unreliable as all statements of that class. You have no idea of how things will pan out over the next 3 years - direly, I expect, but I do not absolutely know.

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Yamis,

    Of course there could be some outrageous happenings which tip everything upside down BUT I'm basing those predictions on things trucking along as they usually do in the political world and with Key at the helm for the next 6 years or so. If you look at most MMP elections the signs for what was going to happen were there at the previous elections in terms of Labour and Nationals momentum.

    What might happen next time is National drop a few points making it very difficult for them to form a government without making a lot of concessions to a lot of parties who have more seats in parliament.

    This time round should be fairly plain sailing unless specials took a couple of seats off them and gave them to the Greens and Labour (unlikely).

    Since Nov 2006 • 862 posts Report Reply

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