Up Front: Eat Up Your Brothelly
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Well-educated articulate sex-workers aren't exactly hard to find on the net.
Nor are really, really stupid ones, especially ones with totally drug addled minds. These are the career prostitutes, rather than the stepping stone ones.
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Anyhoo, I'm just not comfortable with the notion that buying sex is simply another monetary transaction.
I pretty much agree. I don't think it should be illegal because that causes more problems, and I don't see any real point in judging the participants, but I don't really think we'd put it up there in our 'most desired outcomes' that we had created 20,000 more jobs for prostitutes, or that more girls felt more empowered to become prostitutes, or that every street has a brothel in it. It's just not that excellent a thing. I see it rather like gambling. It should be allowed, it should be controlled, and people who have troubles with it should be cared for and helped out of it, if they want that.
Perhaps a slightly easier way to see it - is it actually something you'd be proud to tell you family that your (grown up) kids were doing? Why not? What's inherently wrong with finding out your son is sucking cocks for a living? Or your daughter? Think on it. They're learning the value of hard work, earning a crust, doing something with a future. Or are they?
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Nor are really, really stupid ones, especially ones with totally drug addled minds.
Yes, as in any business, there are foolish,stupid selfish, abused, and greedy people.Thinking back on how many sex workers I have come into contact with, I would say it was a variety of types and for the few that liked their buzz, of all I know, it was the drug takers that actually were the most savvy at getting the big bucks for fucks.Others ,(men and women) picked up holidays, free rentals and the escorts also got breakfast lunch and dinners.So pretty much just like any other business person.
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Anyhoo, I'm just not comfortable with the notion that buying sex is simply another monetary transaction.
I don't think you're alone, Martin.
The same goes for other exchanges of money for personal services, or even for persons, or parts of persons. Adoption, organ donation, child care, nursing care. I paid my midwife but that wasn't simply another monetary transaction. Paying someone to clean one's house, or one's clothes, or even one's person, is another fuzzy zone of taboo and trepidation and intimacy.
Some people find joy in providing service, and make a living doing so; others find joy in making a living, and do so by providing service. At a guess, our discomfort level rises inversely to the level of joy, for both the servicer and the serviced.
(If you're less utopian than me, for "joy" read "satisfaction").
Most service work is done by women, and underpaid accordingly, but there's no reason men can't be good at it as well, although it's presumably less likely they'll be underpaid for it.
Arguably, of course, you could wonder whether anything is (or should be) regarded as simply another monetary transaction. Everything comes at a price and it's not always the one on the tag.
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(If you're less utopian than me, for "joy" read "satisfaction").
After reading Sofie's comment, I should add "free lunch" into the mix :-) The value of which is not to be underestimated.
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Perhaps a slightly easier way to see it - is it actually something you'd be proud to tell you family that your (grown up) kids were doing? Why not? What's inherently wrong with finding out your son is sucking cocks for a living? Or your daughter? Think on it. They're learning the value of hard work, earning a crust, doing something with a future. Or are they?
Ask me if I'd rather a child of mine became a prostitute or a banker, I'd probably have to say - what kind of prostitute? and what kind of banker? But beyond that I'd like them to do something they enjoyed and that made them feel good about themselves and that they were comfortable with. I'd see it involving some sort of solidarity as a plus, but that's more about me than about them. What will it be, it's hard to say or know.
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It has just been pointed out to me that what I am really looking for is a bloke who is just slightly less brilliant than me at Scrabble.
Oh Jolisa. I would lose gracefully and it wouldn't cost you a cent. :-o
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Oh Jolisa. I would lose gracefully and it wouldn't cost you a cent. :-o
A very kind offer, but I already have a man wot does :-)
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If you're less utopian than me, for "joy" read "satisfaction".
Moi. Poor simple male. Now it would probably start a war but it could be an interesting thread. But.........
What IS "satisfaction"?
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Ask me if I'd rather a child of mine became a prostitute or a banker, I'd probably have to say - what kind of prostitute? and what kind of banker?
But that wasn't what I asked. It was whether you'd be proud to tell everyone about it. If people asked some follow up questions about exactly what he does at the bank, you'd most likely be able to say something that sounded like it involved some praiseworthy faculties. I doubt you'd really want to answer too many follow up questions about the other game.
Well, OK, there could always be some brag value in "he's using his enormous inheritance", but don't forget that if he's for rent, it's not hard for people to check that out.
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But that wasn't what I asked. It was whether you'd be proud to tell everyone about it.
Would I ever brag about a child of mine being a banker? I doubt it. I'd brag about them being happy though, no trouble at all.
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Well-educated articulate sex-workers aren't exactly hard to find on the net.
Nor are really, really stupid ones, especially ones with totally drug addled minds. These are the career prostitutes, rather than the stepping stone ones.
Yes. I've heard alarming things about about one well-known Auckland establishment keeping its staff on P -- handily meaning they (a) need money all the time, and (b) aren't in a mental or emotional state to make good choices.
I think I'm correct in supposing that that sort of scenario has become considerably less likely to occur since law reform.
I'm not in the market for sexual services, but it does seem that those owner-operated suburban brothels would offer a better chance of a mutually respectful exchange of money and services. Apart from anything else, I'd guess that CBD brothels would get a higher proportion of customers who fall into the "drunken fuckwit" category.
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I think I'm correct in supposing that that sort of scenario has become considerably less likely to occur since law reform.
Indeed -- and I'm pretty sure you've been around the media long enough that you've plenty of (off the record) stories to tell about sociopathic bosses who got off on manipulating fragile employees. (Actually, addictive psychoactive drugs in the coffee would explain a lot about the Herald.) There's going to be mad, bad and dangerous to know oxygen thieves in any occupation.
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Yes. I've heard alarming things about about one well-known Auckland establishment keeping its staff on P -- handily meaning they (a) need money all the time, and (b) aren't in a mental or emotional state to make good choices.
They're not necessarily going to be the least bit unwilling about it all, either. People who like P, really like it. And if they have to root like crack-hos to get it, root they will. They might really love it, even. I've heard of that, one particular girl who was always trying to get my "source of all this sordid knowledge" on the bake, because that was her idea of fun. He hated that, but was perfectly happy with her crazy arsed antics in bed.
I'm not in the market for sexual services, but it does seem that those owner-operated suburban brothels would offer a better chance of a mutually respectful exchange of money and services
She was an owner-operator, btw. It's not necessarily a choice of empowerment, it might also be the best way to eke out a living after you've been kicked out of every brothel in town because you're too old and look like too much of a junkie. They are by far the cheapest brothels, I believe $50 is not an uncommon rate. Doesn't really sound nearly so wonderful, especially when you consider that's only enough for half a point of P, barely enough for the next few hours for a hardcore junkie.
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I'd brag about them being happy though, no trouble at all.
Yes. I wouldn't tell anyone if mine were a banker. Hell, it's embarrassing enough having family that has a Realtor!
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Yes. I wouldn't tell anyone if mine were a banker. Hell, it's embarrassing enough having family that has a Realtor!
Heh, OK, so the nation doesn't need any more bankers, either. But they should be allowed, and helped to get out of it if that's what they want. I saved my wife from a life of banking. She used to do it all, withdrawals, deposits, transfers, but she's put all that behind her for the kids' sakes. I have, I shamefully admit, abused her accounting services, getting her to do stuff with files I just wouldn't do myself. But she loves it. Or she just grins and bears it - what do I care?
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But she loves it. Or she just grins and bears it - what do I care?
See, can be the same in all walks of life. ;)
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Hmmm... instead of worrying about whether you would happily tell people that your child is a sex worker or a banker, try this thought experiment.
One of the requirements for being able to receive the unemployment benefit is that you are trying to find work. WINZ will even help you to find work. If you turn down a job that is offered to you, your benefit may be cut off.
Should WINZ require people to be sex workers? It's legal, after all.
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Himself on a bike... wait till Paula Bennett gets hold of that thought!
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Should WINZ require people to be sex workers? It's legal, after all.
Ah, yes... I remember having a rather terse conversation with a WINZ case worker about how putting a newly-sober alcoholic to work in a pub might not work well for anyone. :)
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Should WINZ require people to be sex workers? It's legal, after all.
Have you known me to agree with the proposition that WINZ should require people to do work that they don't want to do?
But you know, there are a lot of other jobs that are there for the taking but WINZ doesn't require you to do. How about joining the police force, or the army?
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I must say I'm reaching perilous levels of discomfort about the tone of this conversation. Replace prostitute with gay, if you want to test your tolerance. How would you react if somebody said here, okay, you might be fine with your child being gay, but would you brag about it with your friends? Or, yes, it might be okay to have gay relations, but should people be required to?
Nobody is saying that being a prostitute is a profession that is for everyone, nor that there isn't a great deal of exploitation in that profession. No doubt there is a tiny minority of men and women for whom it would be desirable, and fewer still that could make it work for them. But society's unhealthy attitude to sex notwithstanding, that doesn't reflect badly on them.
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Nobody is saying that being a prostitute is a profession that is for everyone, nor that there isn't a great deal of exploitation in that profession. No doubt there is a tiny minority of men and women for whom it would be desirable, and fewer still that could make it work for them. But society's unhealthy attitude to sex notwithstanding, that doesn't reflect badly on them.
Totally agree. I raised my objection to what I perceived as being "Yay, women can be johns too!". Equality? Sure, but if anyone is reflected badly upon by sex trade it's the buyer - not the seller (IMHO).
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Again: why? There can't possibly be a product that is okay to sell but not to buy, unless somehow you believe that wanting the product in itself is bad. It doesn't make any sense. There are people who for a variety of reasons can use and in fact enjoy the companionship (they haven't forgotten how to wank, you know.) There are people who are happy to provide it. What's the problem with either side of that equation?
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