Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Last Words

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  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Isaac Freeman,

    Labour people I speak to seem to see them only as the party that steals “Left” votes that rightfully belong to Labour.

    And to be fair, I knew plenty of folks on the Nat side of the ledger who had the same attitude towards ACT – a raiding party of nasty little Vikings “cannibalising” (to use Tom’s charming phrase) the fertile women and sheep that belong to us.

    To paraphrase Neil Gaiman’s infamous smack down of fans with entitlement issues: The electors of this country are not your bitches. Deal with it.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12031 posts Report Reply

  • David Hood, in reply to Rich of Observationz,

    I’m voting for SM in the referendum, in the hope of balancing the numbers for each “alternative” out so that none gets enough support to create a bandwagon.

    I would have thought that with John Key's endorsement of SM, and the campaign for change, that SM will be the highest non-MMP option (though I could make a case for FPP or STV). I'm not expecting PV to get much love.

    Dunedin • Since May 2007 • 896 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    You have a good point there Ben. Mana is an unknown. I might become embarrassed about my open support, but as I said earlier, It’s going to require over 3 percent of the party vote plus the electorate to find out what they are about. I have no need to vote Greens any longer because they are safe, and they no longer present much practical social policy. It all seems to be big picture stuff, like"the economy” jobs, environment, solving child poverty. I don’t think big picture is going to cut the mustard for thousands of despondent people. Small picture, like removing the right to assault children was more my cup of tea. Mana, I hope, will be the small picture party.

    Since Nov 2006 • 2751 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes, in reply to Kracklite,

    There is simply no way I can vote Labour. It’s the last three years AWOL as opposition and their support for too much illiberal legislation in that time and before.

    Here lies the problem. Your little protest could mean we get National again. And your argument? that they didn't do what you wanted whilst in opposition. Well, let me remind you that National are so fucking arrogant that the opposition is as good as hogtied, neutered, ignored. A vote against Labour is as good as a vote for National and these people are dangerous.
    Give the bastards an inch and they will eat your children.

    The wireless north ;-) • Since Dec 2006 • 4869 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe, in reply to Isaac Freeman,

    I find it mostly in the pervasive Labour attitude towards the Greens. I see a party with a distinct political tradition, extremely capable leadership and a commitment to decent, honorable politics. Labour people I speak to seem to see them only as the party that steals "Left" votes that rightfully belong to Labour.

    That's such a good analysis, and that arrogance is why I will vote for individual MPs who represent my electorate well but will never again party vote Labour. I have in the past voted Labour, National and Green. This time I'm party vote Green, electorate Labour (Ruth Dyson) and MMP to keep extremists of any hue in check.

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2608 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Campbell,

    Yup that’s what I chose
    greens
    local Labour guy
    mmp
    stv

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 2171 posts Report Reply

  • merc, in reply to Steve Barnes,

    You make a point and I lightened up with a little giggle, thanks for that.

    Since Dec 2006 • 2471 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe, in reply to Steve Barnes,

    A vote against Labour is as good as a vote for National

    Nonsense. My way or the highway huh?

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2608 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to Steve Barnes,

    how do you vote against a political party? I would like to vote against National if I may.

    Since Nov 2006 • 2751 posts Report Reply

  • JLM, in reply to webweaver,

    Craig, you have no idea how inordinately happy I felt when I read this. You rock!

    I did a happy, waving-hands-in-the-air dance too.

    Judy Martin's southern sl… • Since Apr 2007 • 228 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes, in reply to Hebe,

    Nonsense. My way or the highway huh?

    Not at all, if you want your vote to be a protest vote against National not Labour. I would vote for a stinking pile of poo if it would get rid of National, they are Cuthullull's little helpers.

    The wireless north ;-) • Since Dec 2006 • 4869 posts Report Reply

  • thegirlstefan, in reply to Paul Campbell,

    yup same for me:

    Greens for party
    Annette King (I live in Rongotai)
    MMP
    STV (2nd choice)

    It'll be interesting to see the data behind the upsurge in early votes, and also if the Green-initiated campaign to engage eligible voters who aren't enrolled works out

    Aotearoa • Since Oct 2011 • 42 posts Report Reply

  • Islander, in reply to Isaac Freeman,

    +1 Isaac-
    what also bothers me about Labour Party organisation, is the general misogyny and overt racism found in (2) local organisations. Seems we going to have wait until
    the dinosaurs die off before other people can contribute (and I'm in my mid-60s for goodness' sake!)

    So, a Green party vote from me - first time I've ever done that-(other family have done so in the past.)

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes, in reply to steven crawford,

    how do you vote against a political party? I would like to vote against National if I may.

    Vote Labour, vote early and vote often...
    Vote Labour Vote Labour Vote Labour Vote Labour Vote Labour Vote Labour Vote Labour Vote Labour and/or Greens.

    The wireless north ;-) • Since Dec 2006 • 4869 posts Report Reply

  • Brent Jackson, in reply to Steve Barnes,

    A vote against Labour is as good as a vote for National ...

    You're either for us, or against us ...

    That's not the way MMP works.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 420 posts Report Reply

  • Kracklite, in reply to Steve Barnes,

    Your little protest could mean we get National again. And your argument? that they didn’t do what you wanted whilst in opposition.

    Correct. If a party does not represent me, then they do not earn, let alone own my vote.

    A vote against Labour is as good as a vote for National and these people are dangerous.

    Does “You’re either with us or against us” ring any bells? That not-so-latent authoritarianism and sense of entitlement can exist anywhere, painted red or blue.

    I would vote for a stinking pile of poo

    Be careful what you wish for.

    In any case, your attempt at blackmail makes sense only if Labour is the only opposition party under a FPP system, which is not the case.

    Brent: Snap.

    The Library of Babel • Since Nov 2007 • 980 posts Report Reply

  • tussock, in reply to steven crawford,

    I would like to vote against National if I may.

    Technically, any vote for a party that crosses the threshold or wins an electorate other than them is a vote against National. They want 61+ MPs, and every other list MP elected before their 61st works against them.

    Edit: Oh, and Green, the local Sue Coutts so she gets the refund (very safe National seat), Keep MMP, and STV.

    Be nice if the MMP review can get us PV or STV seats, no threshold (well, first divisor 1.4 I suppose) and maybe even a few less list MPs. But that's later.

    Two ticks entrenched? So the nats push through SM. Bah.

    Since Nov 2006 • 480 posts Report Reply

  • martinb, in reply to Russell Brown,

    I agree with you on the broadcasting policy- but respectfully disagree about the GST off fruit and veges. We are feeling the full force of the fast food advertising dollar. Any step in the right direction will help. Here's I/S view on NoRightTurn.

    Auckland • Since Jul 2010 • 159 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Kracklite,

    Correct. If a party does not represent me, then they do not earn, let alone own my vote.

    The “left” is not Labour’s bitch. The “right” is not National’s bitch. The center don’t have to take big party cock from either end – it can be as electorally slutty as it pleases.

    Not rocket science, people.

    Now, can we stick a fucking fork in FPP-style “born to rule” prickery because it’s not only done, it’s maggoty and beginning to reek.

    Have a good one tomorrow, folks. But if the outcome isn't to your liking, at least try to pay due respect to the free, fair and credible general election that's going to happen tomorrow. Especially if you don't like the outcome.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12031 posts Report Reply

  • martinb, in reply to steven crawford,

    Yeh- I voted Green in 1999. I haven't since as I thought they should have been promoting the core green message of how beneficial being genuine not token with our environmentalism could be. Rather than a little bit of marijuana,anti- chicken hormones, anti-American imperialism etc and hooshed together, though each may have its merits.

    Now they are trying to mainstream Green politics I can't bring myself to trust Russell Norman. There was something saint-like about Donald and Fitzsimmons. I'm not yet convinced by the current crop there.

    Appearing on this thread is also the slight hint of tactical voting for Winston. Considering this. It is not a nice thought, but which other party can concievably have a real shot at preventing asset sales?

    Also 4 % of the non-Nat vote would be a lot to waste. I think the opposition will be stronger with Winston in it. There are some National cabinet ministers who really need an introduction to some firebrand opposition politics. The man can answer a question, even if he doesn't have an answer written out for him by Steve Joyce. but not sure that I'll be able to vote for him on the day.

    Auckland • Since Jul 2010 • 159 posts Report Reply

  • martinb,

    I think Labour, being a broad organisation has some people that don't realise they have to earn every vote, and a lot of sincere capable hard working people who do.

    I think also that a Norman/Turei Greens party is a much easier sell to be a partner in government for the right of the Labour party than Tanzcos/Locke/Bradford etc.

    Auckland • Since Jul 2010 • 159 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz, in reply to David Hood,

    Polling here. FPP is ahead, the polls differ on the tailender. SM or PV, anyway - toss a coin for which..

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 4463 posts Report Reply

  • Islander, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    +1 - and thanks Craig-

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • JacksonP, in reply to Rich of Observationz,

    Polling here. FPP is ahead, the polls differ on the tailender. SM or PV, anyway – toss a coin for which..

    You gave me a fright. You mean it's ahead if the referendum is for change. Which at the moment seems unlikely. Keep MMP 54.4%. Change 35%, 10% Undecided.

    It made more sense after I read David's comment earlier of course.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2011 • 2143 posts Report Reply

  • Jackie Clark,

    Oh god, I CAN"T DECIDE between Greens and Labour for my party vote. I just can't. If I want to see someone on the Labour List get into parliament (I think he's 33 or something), I have to vote Labour, don't I? Don't I?

    Mt Eden, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3123 posts Report Reply

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