Up Front by Emma Hart

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Up Front: Staying Civil

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  • Megan Wegan,

    Do you get the Mr and Mrs His Full Name ones? We did, last Christmas. I went rather beyond fuming.

    My mum, not an activist in any way, used to post back any letter addressed to Mrs My Dad's Name.

    Welly • Since Jul 2008 • 1273 posts Report Reply

  • Rich Lock,

    Mr and Mrs My Full Name, occasionally, yes.

    She only fumes because it's been going on for so many years that the full-on eruptions have died down from magma to fumes.

    Difficult to yell at elderly relatives, though.

    back in the mother countr… • Since Feb 2007 • 2328 posts Report Reply

  • Jackie Clark,

    So one of our Christmas traditions revolves around us getting cards addressed to 'Mr and Mrs'. I laugh while she fumes. Then she kicks me in the nuts so she can have a laugh.

    Do you get the Mr and Mrs His Full Name ones? We did, last Christmas. I went rather beyond fuming.

    Ah, it's all about the etiquette. Interestingly, when a man is knighted, and he is still alive, the nomenclature when the spouse is there, is Sir (his first name)__ and Lady (insert surname here, but not her name)_. When he dies, then she becomes Lady (her first name, followed by her married surname)___. However, when a woman is a Dame - as appointed by the GG on behalf of HM the Queen - she is Dame whoever, and her husband? Well, you can see my point. He retains his identity.

    Mt Eden, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3121 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    You did what?!

    Won't I look silly if there really is a gold mountain on Jupiter, which does turn out to belong to me. Also at the Pearly Gates. I'll be forking out to Pascal over his wager too.

    'But WHY do you believe in magic? It's stupid!'

    I expect if you were for some unfathomable reason involved with a truly devout Catholic, this would have come up well before any thoughts of marriage. I'm blessed by being with one of those ones that's only a member for the perks. A rorting Catholic, not really that uncommon.

    You do know that they will count you among their followers forever and ever more, right?

    Fortunately I'm the one who fills out the census form.

    All up it seemed like a reasonable deal. Venues are expensive, especially ones with massive high ceilings and tons of stained glass, seating for hundreds, a good sound system, open on weekends, with a dude to sort out all the paperwork. I'm not religious enough about my atheism to front up with thousands of dollars of hard cash just to avoid 15 minutes of tokenism that probably actually appealed to half the audience anyway. We had lightning flashes through the ceremony which looked awesome through the stained glass, and a no-less-silly side of me felt secretly pleased that the Thunder God smiled on our union.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8305 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle,

    Mr and Mrs His Full Name ones

    These. Seriously, man. What. The Fuck. And even the Danielle His Last Name cards, which were sort of understandable, maybe, are now *totally* inexcusable because many of the relatives who send us these things are friends with me on Facebook, where it is eye-piercingly obvious that my awesome, thematically consistent French-assed name *remains* awesome, thematically consistent, and French-assed. </rage>

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3623 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    In our case we have relatives who do this very deliberately.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7320 posts Report Reply

  • Megan Wegan,

    However, when a woman is a Dame - as appointed by the GG on behalf of HM the Queen - she is Dame whoever, and her husband? Well, you can see my point. He retains his identity.

    It might be wrong, and I know I've discussed this before over on Twitter, but all I want in life is to become a Dame.

    Welly • Since Jul 2008 • 1273 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle,

    In our case we have relatives who do this very deliberately.

    I can't actually work out if this is them being passive-aggressive twatcocks, or just sheer mental laziness. But it is rather difficult to bring up because I'm kind of... not very confrontational with in-laws. At all. It seems churlish (dammit, this 'girls must be polite' thing is kicking me in the ovaries again).

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3623 posts Report Reply

  • Alan P,

    @Craig,

    Thanks for that link to Ted Olson on Fox. I hadn't seen that before.

    Theres something powerful about being in the presence of such clarity of mind. I felt similarly when reading some of the passages in Carl Sagan's "Demon Haunted World".
    I don't imagine there is anyone in the world who could have produced a convincing argument against Mr Olson in that context.

    Auckland • Since Jun 2009 • 33 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    Yes, because that is so what I was saying.

    Well it looked like you were saying "it resolves itself because there aren't really children in NZ to be adopted". Hence my question. Feel free to, y'know, clarify.

    I'm blessed by being with one of those ones that's only a member for the perks.

    Free wine at communion?

    Since Nov 2006 • 6150 posts Report Reply

  • Jackie Clark,

    It might be wrong, and I know I've discussed this before over on Twitter, but all I want in life is to become a Dame.

    We are dames, darling, just not Dames. It's good enough for me.

    my awesome, thematically consistent French-assed name *remains* awesome, thematically consistent, and French-assed.

    From a feminist perspective, I have been, in the past, very conflicted about this. When I got married, I changed my name - yes, at the bank, all that bollocks - to his. I was a silly little girl, really, because I was full of " I am his" lovedupedness, and Ian couldn't have cared less if I changed my name. I did, though, and so, for years, I was Mrs (his last name). Even though none of my friends or family ever remembered his last name. I was always Jackie Clark to them. I used to get quite annoyed about it. And then, as we went on, I became Jackie Clark again, although by now all our bank accounts, power etc were addressed to Mrs or Jackie (his last name). So I became both. Mrs G, or Ms C and even Ms G, on occasions. And I am fine with that now. Because Mrs or Jackie or Ms G is a part of me now, as much as Jackie Clark is or ever was. And, after all, all surnames in most of the Western World, are patriachal. So conflicted I am, no more. I, like everyone, am different things to different people. And that goes for my name.

    Mt Eden, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3121 posts Report Reply

  • Megan Wegan,

    From my own feminist perspective, I feel bad that this is something I actually don't care all that much about. I would take my husband/civillian's name if it was something he felt particularly strong about.

    The older I get though, the more I think I want to hang on to Wegan.

    Welly • Since Jul 2008 • 1273 posts Report Reply

  • 3410,

    On that note...

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen,

    I want in life is to become a Dame.

    I think I must be tired because I just saw you as a 20's flapper with some guy in a pinstripe suit saying "whadda a dame" ...

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3221 posts Report Reply

  • Megan Wegan,

    I think I must be tired because I just saw you as a 20's flapper with some guy in a pinstripe suit saying "whadda a dame" ...

    That's the one, yes.

    Welly • Since Jul 2008 • 1273 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    Free wine at communion?

    I really should go to a Mass at least once in my life, just to see, and get the bonus sacrament, bringing me up to a bare fail.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8305 posts Report Reply

  • Jackie Clark,

    The older I get though, the more I think I want to hang on to Wegan.

    I also meant to say that some people have awesome, distinctive, surnames in the first place. And that has been the reason from some women of my acquaintance either keeping or discarding their own surnames.

    Mt Eden, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3121 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle,

    surnames in most of the Western World, are patriachal

    Funny you should mention that: my New Zealand passport gives my name, technically, as 'Danielle Cara [Father's Last Name] [Mother's Maiden Name]' because my birth certificate is Venezuelan and that's how they do things there. Which makes me wonder just how long names in Spanish-speaking countries can get. (Charo's full name: María Rosario Pilar Martínez Molina Gutiérrez de los Perales Santa Ana Romanguera y de la Hinojosa Rasten.)

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3623 posts Report Reply

  • Jackie Clark,

    I know. It's funny because in some places, names are purely matriachal. Alot of our kids have their mother's surname, and some have both (Maori families are particularly fond of names that incorporate both, in our kindergarten anyway). When I taught in Owairaka, most of our children carried their mothers' surnames - whether they were Indian/Somalian/Ethiopian/Sudanese.

    Mt Eden, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3121 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Stace,

    I've been married, widowed, separated, divorced, single and in a LAT (Living Apart Together) relationship. So for surveys I just answer yes.

    However, one of the sensible things I did in all of this was to give my children my surname, which has saved a lot of confusion over the years..

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 2008 posts Report Reply

  • Deborah,

    Regarding dames and knights, Dame Stella Lady Casey and Rt Hon Sir Maurice Casey solved the problem of what to call the peer's partner very nicely.

    Manawatu City • Since Nov 2006 • 1298 posts Report Reply

  • Josh Addison,

    When we got Civil Unionerised, my wife* and I kept our respective surnames, but our son has my surname, because A) we both like the sound of it better and B) her brother will doubtless carry on her family name when he sprogs up.

    * Yeah, I just use "wife", on the grounds that I'm too lazy and unimaginative to think up and advocate an alternative.

    Onehunga, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 297 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    Well it looked like you were saying "it resolves itself because there aren't really children in NZ to be adopted". Hence my question. Feel free to, y'know, clarify.

    I thought it was pretty clear: we should equalise things at our end (and it looks like we basically have, according to Graeme), but it's not going to do much to change the realities of adopting until the countries that the children come from follow suit. Although I'm actually unsure how adoptions work in NZ, there are nations that don't always rely on the legal framework of the countries of origin.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7320 posts Report Reply

  • Jacqui Dunn,

    My niece complains because her name won't fit on forms. Her Maori father called her Te-Moana-nui-a-Kiwa, and by the time she's put in her two other first names and moves on to her double-barreled surname, she's off the page.

    Deepest, darkest Avondale… • Since Jul 2010 • 585 posts Report Reply

  • Jacqui Dunn,

    When forms arrive with the standard options: Mr, Miss, Mrs, Ms, - invariably in that order - I go for Dr, which keeps 'em guessing about the number of penises involved - just the way I like it...

    :)) Nice

    Deepest, darkest Avondale… • Since Jul 2010 • 585 posts Report Reply

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