Up Front by Emma Hart

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Up Front: You People and Your Quaint Little Categories

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  • Sacha,

    Once a punk..

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16996 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Campbell,

    I've always liked Ani DiFranco's take on 'quaint little categories':

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 2201 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca,

    Once a punk..

    Right I'm shoving quaint little categories in the bin, but you knew that. I like punk as my reference then and now on.I will go with that without discrimination.:)

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6358 posts Report Reply

  • Rich Lock,

    Given that I can't see any reason why people couldn't be attracted to 'bisexuals'.

    OK, here's a half-baked personal theory that I'll put out there to test the water:

    No-one (or very few people) are absolutely, positively 100% at one end of the sexuality spectrum - 'people are attracted to people'.

    But most people won't explore the whole range of their sexual 'being' (for want of a better word). Societal expectations/norms, repression, etc.

    In a relationship, or just sex, most straight guys* want to hook up with a woman who is open and uninhibited about sex - swinging from the light tends to be a lot more fun than lights off all the time, if you see what I mean.


    Plus which, confidence is damn sexy. So a woman who is sexually confident enough to have explored that side of herself (even if it was 'just the once at art school') is going to be a pretty attractive prospect to most guys.

    *speaking in my offical capacity as spokesperson for 'most straight guys'.

    back in the mother countr… • Since Feb 2007 • 2401 posts Report Reply

  • webweaver,

    No-one (or very few people) are absolutely, positively 100% at one end of the sexuality spectrum - 'people are attracted to people'.

    But most people won't explore the whole range of their sexual 'being' (for want of a better word). Societal expectations/norms, repression, etc.

    *nodding head in utter agreement*

    I absolutely agree. Seems to me that sexuality is a continuum from 100% straight at one end to 100% gay at the other. Most people are somewhere between the two. People are scattered all the way along this spectrum from one end to the other, but as you say, Rich, I think many people who could be bi, choose not to explore that potential for whatever reason.

    I'd also like to mention the fact that there are some guys who find the idea of going out with a bi woman rather exciting, I think because they can fantasise about her being with another woman at the same time as being able to shag her themselves.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 330 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca,

    But most people won't explore the whole range of their sexual 'being' (for want of a better word). Societal expectations/norms, repression, etc.

    Or they are comfortable/satisfied where they went in the first place and even if they are up to n.o 42 in the numbers game, still satisfied?
    * speaking in my official capacity as 'Straight happy chick with an awesome man at my side'

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6358 posts Report Reply

  • 3410,

    I'd also like to mention the fact that there are some guys who find the idea of going out with a bi woman rather exciting, I think because they can fantasise about her being with another woman at the same time as being able to shag her themselves.

    "[A]t the same time," being, perhaps, the operative phrase.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov,

    Gotta agree with you there Rich, sounds sound.

    her being with another woman at the same time as being able to shag her themselves.

    I have a latino (necessary info) buddy from Phoenix who's 12 year marriage was in part based on doing quite a bit of that, unfortunately the extra curricular activity eventually drove them apart....the guy was a little racy for me but he had some good tips..one of which I feel compelled to share at this juncture, when performing cunning linguisitcs, letting the tongue write the letters of the alphabet....

    your taxed dollar • Since Mar 2008 • 1707 posts Report Reply

  • Isabel Hitchings,

    Words like 'feminine' and 'kinky' can carry some very heavy negative connotations, but we don't really have anything sufficient to replace them with.

    Oh yeah. I struggled with my wording above for ages and, in the end, had to rely on the intelligence and good-will of PAS readers to understand my view without taking undue offence.

    Christchurch • Since Jul 2007 • 706 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie,

    . . . when performing cunning linguisitcs, letting the tongue write the letters of the alphabet....

    What, no actual sentences? "Dear Sir/Madam . . ."

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 3628 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov,

    What, no actual sentences?

    Ha, depends how cunning...generally as i understand it, a systematic method of finding which letters work; being multilingual opens up universes....

    your taxed dollar • Since Mar 2008 • 1707 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov,

    a strange eerie silence followed...

    your taxed dollar • Since Mar 2008 • 1707 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca,

    ;) What letter are you on?

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6358 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    The rolling R? as in Rangitiki...

    No that wouldn't work, not that way anyhow.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2807 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart,

    So a woman who is sexually confident enough to have explored that side of herself (even if it was 'just the once at art school') is going to be a pretty attractive prospect to most guys.

    While I'm not disagreeing with this as a generalisation about Out Bis, when you break down by sexuality, the only group with a higher suicide rate than bisexuals is transsexuals. We kill ourselves and suffer from depression at a higher rate than even gays and lesbians.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4379 posts Report Reply

  • Jackie Clark,

    Kinsey talked about the sexuality spectrum, and I'm not sure if it was him or someone else who hypothesied that there is nobody at either extreme end of the spectrum. I would tend to agree with that. Even if one does not act on one's attraction to the same sex, I would say that most people who identify as heterosexual have at some time in their lives felt that attraction.Just as there are many people out there who identify as gay who have had relationships, sexual and nonplatonic love relationships, with the opposite sex.

    Mt Eden, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3123 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov,

    While I'm not disagreeing with this as a generalisation about Out Bis, when you break down by sexuality, the only group with a higher suicide rate than bisexuals is transsexuals. We kill ourselves and suffer from depression at a higher rate than even gays and lesbians.

    Yeah there's a certain circus freak slant in the way society deals with transsexualism. burlesque shows and parades. Heaven help the transsexual who doesn't like showbiz.

    Noticed this in the stuff.co.nz article yesterday entitled "Peter Andre Threatened."

    Katie reportedly didn't want to talk to him, so asked her cage-fighter lover, who has been revealed to be a cross-dresser, to answer the phone.

    tautology?

    your taxed dollar • Since Mar 2008 • 1707 posts Report Reply

  • Islander,

    Hello (in tiny wee letters)-
    there are people at the extreme end of the spectrum...us. The disinterested ones. Kindly asexuals who dont give a fuck (or take any kind of one) about any kind of sexual intercourse. Natural human oddities. Me.

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    I don't like the spectrum model. Lets go the Dewey Decimal Classification. Its linear, but its less like a litness test. It has room for expansion.

    Islander, Barry Brickel had to put up with all sorts of subtle mocking, by the art writers, over his sexuality. He says he has never had sex, and asserts he's not intending to. He's a good keen bloke, out there in the Coromandel. And one of my art heros.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2807 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca,

    Kindly asexuals who dont give a fuck (or take any kind of one) about any kind of sexual intercourse. Natural human oddities. Me.

    Hear hear.(and yay for the hermaphrodites) my point about self awareness was heading in that direction.I thinkish sex/sexuality is such a small part of the relationship/bond between humans, (although each has a personal threshold, none of which should be judged, and can we leave sick out of this one) like honesty with confidence which in and amongst itself must demand equality.Once humans can have that, surely we can do away with categorizing. Then we can just all get along. Win win?

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6358 posts Report Reply

  • Islander,

    Hear hear!

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Jackie Clark,

    Islander, I have always thought of people who identify as asexual as being in the middle of the spectrum, if you are coming from the perspective that at either end of that spectrum are people who are completely homosexual or conversely, those who are completely heterosexual.

    Mt Eden, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3123 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Asexuals break the spectrum model - the middle would be balanced bicycles.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16996 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart,

    It's a "spectrum" that has multiple axes, I think: I can't see any correlation between 'likes boys/girls' and degree of sex drive.

    See, from my perspective I always thought people didn't place enough emphasis on the role of sex in relationships . Learning where I sit in that respect has been part of a long harrowing occasionally bloody unpleasant process in which my drive, kink, and bisexuality seem to be separate components of a whole. Pretty much everything seems to be more complicated than a line. But Kinsey's continuum is still a vast improvement on the two-box model which sees me and Islander both asked 'WTF are you?' and not believed when we answer.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4379 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Drive, orientation and kink all sound like reasonable axes - but really, an axis is a spectrum. Single spectrum model just not enough.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16996 posts Report Reply

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