Up Front by Emma Hart

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Up Front: Say When

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  • Hilary Stace,

    Belatedly, just watched the whole Media 7 programme last Thursday and even though it was good to highlight the issue about the GWS programme in Wellington closing I'm a a bit grrrrrrhhh about the portrayal of WS generally. It was a bit like having a discussion on autism and only asking psychologists. Why couldn't someone have been invited who at least knew about the Wellington situation? That young journalist hadn't even checked her facts. People continued to enrol in GWS in 2010 and again in 2011 in spite of it not being in the university calendar either year, and in spite of official notification of closure last year. They had to search it out. And still enrolled.

    There has been a very active group making submissions and presentations for the last year who could have been contacted to provide information through the university students' association, Facebook page or union. Many work in media related areas. There are several retired prominent feminist lecturers who might have been available. And as I mentioned above, current students cover a range of demographics and are certainly not dominated by middle class women. It is a course where you learn about lots of things including countering otherness, discrimination, oppression. So relevant to many disciplines, occupations and policy areas. End of rave.

    Now late for Giovanni's birthday.

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 2002 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart, in reply to Hilary Stace,

    Hilary: they did try. From what I heard it sounded like a very frustrating experience.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4327 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca,

    Emma, you have glorious tits,

    How old? When you think the tattoo you got when you were 18 needs to be put away.......

    Can I just pop in here to catch up,I know,but to express in my simple terms,
    It is NEVER too old to have glorious tits or get tattoos either, but I do think one should be able to verbally admire them any way they feel comfortable cos' as soon as you expect otherwise, well one knows where that leads..... IMO ;)

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 5918 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca,

    Oh and Jackie, if your family who suggest the bra are anything like your Mum, I admire your strength to stay strong sister :). You have glorious tits too! IMO :)

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 5918 posts Report Reply

  • Jackie Clark, in reply to Sofie Bribiesca,

    It's a little trick called defiance, Sof - you know that!

    Mt Eden, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3121 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Hilary Stace,

    Like Emma said, that was a difficult panel to wrangle. As a media show, we wanted people with a connection to journalism, and quite a few people said no. I haven't seen the show myself yet.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18503 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Stace,

    Russell, Emma: I know these things can be tricky, especially when time is tight. But I haven't come across anyone in the Wellington networks who was even asked for suggestions. And who would have guessed that Chris Trotter would have to be the champion for feminism on a panel about academic women's studies?

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 2002 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Parks, in reply to Hilary Stace,

    And who would have guessed that Chris Trotter would have to be the champion for feminism on a panel about academic women’s studies?

    Trotter was as surprised as you are, Hilary.

    But could they get anybody with a strong personal commitment to the teaching of Women’s Studies to appear on the show? Not on your Nelly! Sandra Coney and Sue Kedgely, founding mothers of Second Wave Feminism in New Zealand, declined. All the women in academia who were approached were unwilling to put their heads above the ivory parapet. Even the women at New Zealand’s premier feminist blogsite – The Hand Mirror – refused to participate.

    Really? Well, if that summary is fair, sounds like they tried.

    Wellington • Since May 2007 • 1122 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Steve Parks,

    refused to participate

    I'd like to hear more about that

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16263 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Stace,

    Although important for second wave feminism in NZ, neither Sandra Coney nor Sue Kedgely are associated with the academic study of Womens Studies nor Victoria University. Unfortunately, Phillida Bunkle, one of the founders of the VUW course, is no longer in NZ, and Dr Lesley Hall, who is the last staff member of GWS and currently facing redundancy, is briefly overseas. But I would like to hear which "women in academia" were approached, after Marilyn was unavailable (although even she is not involved with what is happening in Wellington). Anne Else, Alison Laurie, Prue Hyman, Margaret Clark and Marian Evans would be among my first suggestions (all well versed in media) or those currently associated with the active Women's Studies Association or the WSJournal.

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 2002 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Steve Parks,

    All the women in academia who were approached were unwilling to put their heads above the ivory parapet.

    Could Trotter try not being a man-tronising douche-bag? I'm sure those invertebrate blue-stockings really welcomed Trotter restraining the urge to burn his pappy pants, but could we do the women concerned the courtesy of not assuming they declined the invitation out of rank cowardice? I'm well past the point of finding Trotter's sneering condescension towards the wimmin-folk who doesn't behave as he sees fit tiresome and obnoxious.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 11781 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Hilary Stace,

    And who would have guessed that Chris Trotter would have to be the champion for feminism on a panel about academic women’s studies?

    I was surprised. Indeed, it was a surprising show. Hannah's contribution differed markedly from what she'd said to our researcher.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18503 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    Could Trotter try not being a man-tronising douche-bag? I’m sure those invertebrate blue-stockings really welcomed Trotter restraining the urge to burn his pappy pants, but could we do the women concerned the courtesy of not assuming they declined the invitation out of rank cowardice?

    Indeed, some of them were simply unable to make it. But others were offered the opportunity and cried off. So he wasn’t entirely wrong.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18503 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Russell Brown,

    So he wasn’t entirely wrong.

    I'll take your word for that, because you're in a better position to know. But there's also all kinds of reasons why many academics are pretty gun-shy about doing interviews they think (fairly or not) is going to end up being edited down to a meaningless sound bite and framed as some gelatin-infused cat-fight. Not how Media7 rolls, I know; but I'm a little more sympathetic to those who might not want to talk about something as contentious as department closures -- especially if there's a potential conflict of interest.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 11781 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    a potential conflict of interest

    what do you reckon that could be?

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16263 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    In all this, I'm still baffled that Trotter ended up in that chair. How many names were there in the phone list, four million?

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7320 posts Report Reply

  • recordari, in reply to giovanni tiso,

    In all this, I’m still baffled that Trotter ended up in that chair. How many names were there in the phone list, four million?

    Wait for his book.

    Radom Access Memoir.

    AUCKLAND • Since Dec 2009 • 2607 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Sacha,

    what do you reckon that could be?

    I don't know if speculation would be particularly useful, but as a pure hypothetical let's say that Victoria was planning to close its classics department. Now, if I was the Head of Classics at Auckland, I may have all kinds of salient and perfectly reasonable arguments why that's no great tragedy but there's no way I could honestly say I was a disinterested by-stander. That's a genuine (but easily managed) conflict of interest.

    And while it's not a direct analogy, I've found it hard to find any bookseller or publisher who'll say anything disobliging about Whitcoulls on the record -- not because those criticisms don't exist, but because they're actually decent people who don't want to be seen kicking a competitor in the slats when its on the floor, and hundreds of jobs are on the line.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 11781 posts Report Reply

  • DeepRed, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    And to add to the above, the infamous lawsuit over the FOX TV bovine growth hormone exposé is probably the sort of thing the interested parties want to avoid.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 4056 posts Report Reply

  • recordari,

    FWIW, that was 'Random', in many senses.

    AUCKLAND • Since Dec 2009 • 2607 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Stace,

    The closure of GWS at VUW is all very political and commenting may have repercussions if you are involved in other parts of the university (as I am, tenuously). Many NZ wide academics have been involved in various levels of review so conflicts of interest there. There is also a bit of feminist solidarity so one might not feel qualified to talk about one campus or discipline from another.

    I am just annoyed becuase my second PhD supervisor is about to lose her job and so won't be there in an academic capacity to support me through the marking processes. Not many 'get' my autism policy research, which mainly takes a disability studies approach - but WS does. Just as it 'gets' issues of the experences of new Samoan mothers, or young women's sexuality, or the portrayal of women in film and television, or subjects relating to queer theory and identity. This is modern GWS. Dangerous for the status quo.

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 2002 posts Report Reply

  • Rich Lock, in reply to Megan Clayton,

    (I am not a frequent commenter as PAS because I favour the long-form in writing and don't wish to clog up the columnage unduly. I trust more active members will grant me this diversion.)

    Well, my view is that as soon as we start talking about the complex stuff, we don't really have a choice except to go long-form.

    Thanks for your response Rich.

    I think it's me that should be thanking you, not the other way round.

    back in the mother countr… • Since Feb 2007 • 2326 posts Report Reply

  • Rich Lock,

    Closer to home, the way forward faces the obstacle of the Whaddarya Mentality (TM), which erroneously regards stay-at-home dads as having a loser or poofter stigma. If anything, it's a subset of barefoot-and-pregnant-ism, which itself is a subset of the flourishing Ladder Kicking Syndrome.

    OK, so what do we do about it, aside from speaking out when we see it?

    back in the mother countr… • Since Feb 2007 • 2326 posts Report Reply

  • Geoff Lealand,

    In all this, I’m still baffled that Trotter ended up in that chair

    I know that Trotter is not Mr Popular around these parts but I did appreciate him challenging Deborah Coddington on her facile notion of 'objective' journalism and her belief that the world-views of journalists are not already shaped and constrained by their backgrounds and education--and, as Chris himself declared, 'that ugly word----class"

    Screen & Media Studies, U… • Since Oct 2007 • 2265 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Megan Clayton,

    I am not a frequent commenter as PAS because I favour the long-form in writing and don't wish to clog up the columnage unduly.

    I also encourage you to go for it.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16263 posts Report Reply

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